. >> so, frank, when you hear gary bower talking like that, pat robertson, it doesn't sound like they've given up. and if they are not given up, if they're digging in, that could be a problem for moderate republicans that want to recapture the party. >> well, it will be a huge problem for two reasons. one, theological and ideological. these guys can't budge because this is part of their faith. they've included in their faith now the kind of karl rove agenda of big business and corporate america and capitalism. so, they're totally stuck. but i want to say something else. there are republican agitators and extremists like ralph reed, who are now also in it just for the money. look, he claimed he got $11 million. you can be sure he took a nice, big cut off the top of that to get out the evangelical vote. like karl rove, who will keep coming back like a bad lunch, they aren't going to go away. why? because there's big money in sucker-punching evangelicals into thinking you can deliver a vote for them. how do i know that? as i talk about in my book "crazy for god" i was one of those guys 30 y